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Romans 5 vs 1 vs 12 - chpt 7 vs 25 - Corps Notes - 10b

Format: mp3,pdf
Publication Date: 1973

Victor Paul Wierwille was a Bible scholar and teacher for over four decades.

By means of Dr. Wierwille's dynamic teaching of the accuracy and integrity of God's Word, foundational class and advanced class graduates of Power for Abundant Living have learned that the one great requirement for every student of the Bible is to rightly divide the Word of Truth. Thus, his presentation of the Word of God was designed for students who desire the in-depth-accuracy of God’s Word.

In his many years of research, Dr. Wierwille studied with such men as Karl Barth, E. Stanley Jones, Glenn Clark, Bishop K.C. Pillai, and George M. Lamsa. His formal training included Bachelor of Arts and Bachelor of Theology degrees from Mission House (Lakeland) College and Seminary. He studied at the University of Chicago and at Princeton Theological Seminary from which he received a Master of Theology degree in Practical Theology. Later he completed his work for the Doctor of Theology degree.

Dr. Wierwille taught the first class on Power for Abundant Living in 1953.

Books by Dr. Wierwille include: Are the Dead Alive Now? published in 1971; Receiving the Holy Spirit Today published in 1972; five volumes of Studies in Abundant Living— The Bible Tells Me So (1971), The New, Dynamic Church (1971), The Word's Way (1971), God's Magnified Word (1977), Order My Steps in Thy Word (1985); Jesus Christ Is Not God (1975); Jesus Christ Our Passover (1980); and Jesus Christ Our Promised Seed (1982).

Dr. Wierwille researched God's Word, taught, wrote, and traveled worldwide, holding forth the accuracy of God's "wonderful, matchless" Word.

Okay, let’s look for them, 6:2, “God forbid” got it? Okay 6:15, “God forbid” last two
words,got it? 7:7, “God forbid.” And I thought it was in 15 it’s not, where is it? Okay 13
[7:13], “God forbid.” Now, did you put down statement, question, repudiation, answer? I’ll
give them to you, all four of them, ready? The statement is made in 5:20-21. Question, 6:1.
Repudiation, 6:2. The answer 6:3-14. Now, the question is in 6:1.
Romans 6:1:
What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may [what?] abound.
Right. Here’s the repudiation:
Romans 6:2:
God forbid....
Let it not become so. Why? Because of the super abounding of grace. And that which
was wrought in Christ Jesus. God forbid is the repudiation of it in verse 2:
Romans 6:2 (continued):
...How we that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Now, verse 3 begins the answer:
Romans 6:3:
Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into...
There again, I have problems with Jesus Christ. That’s what it should be I think. Is that
right? That one I think you have to go, I think eternal life by Jesus Christ in 21 could set,
but I don’t know. But this one here surely must be Christ Jesus.
Romans 6:3 (continued):
...were baptized into his death?
And I told you it wasn’t his substitution, that’s great but it’s our identification with
him. That’s just so fantastic.
Romans 6:4:
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was
raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in
newness of life.
Really something, I made myself other notes I saw here. The word “dead” or “death,”
you know or words related to dead, is used 14 times in this section that I just gave you
these verses. Life and resurrection are used nine times. I made another note to myself here:
death is related to our justification. Life is related to our sanctification in the identification.
This newness of life, I haven’t done enough work or had time to do enough work, but this
newness of life is greater than being made new. It’s a new, new. It’s a newness. There is an
entirely different word used for the word “new.” Newness is bigger than being new. And in
this answer that’s given here, you know, God forbid? We were baptized with him into
Christ Jesus, buried with him, raised up from the dead, we were identified. And therefore
we have what kind of a life? Newness of life; newness of life. This newness of life, is the
Christian’s answer to Christ’s resurrected life, in our walk. Newness of life; puts a spring in
your soul. It says in verse 5:
Romans 6:5:
For if we’ve been planted together...
The words “planted together” literally are translated “became united with.” Because
it’s more than planted. It’s more than planted; it’s deeper than planted. It literally means
“became united with.” I can see how they got planted with, I can see that. I think I can
even explain it. Here’s ground: you plant corn in the ground. Planted with, it’s the ground
that makes possible the life to come out of that kernel, that grain, that corn. Because, the
seed is united with the ground. It’s the ground that makes the seed to come up, if there was
no ground (you know, you can keep the seed in the bag a life time), there is no newness of
life; but the newness of life comes in that we were united. Identified with him. Like the
ground would represent Christ and we were seeded in that with him, united with him in
that ground, you understand? I think I understand this planted together of King James. It’s
really something, united with him.
Romans 6:5:
For if we have been united with him in the likeness [it’s a good word, likeness] of
his death, we shall be...also of...resurrection:
When he was raised, we were raised with him. When we died, we died with him.
When he was buried, we were buried with him. When he was baptized in that death, we
were baptized with him. There is not one phase that grace did not super abound in, of all of
man’s short comings, because of the identification or union with Christ. Really something.
Verse 6:
Romans 6:6:
Knowing this, that our old man [was] crucified...,
“Shall we then sin that grace may abound? God,” what? {Forbid.} Our old man was
what? Crucified.
Romans 6:6b, 7:
...that the body of sin might be done away, that henceforth we should no longer be
in bondage to sin.
For he that is dead is freed....
And the word “freed” is justified. He that is dead is justified. But I told you earlier,
that if a murderer paid the full penalty for who he murdered, he would have completed the
law and the law would make him just, right? But it wouldn’t give him, what? Life. That’s
what I was thinking about. Life is not in the substitution, life is in the identification, the
union with Jesus Christ. It’s in his resurrection. If he arose then we did, what? {Arose.}
And if he has life, then we have what? {Life.} Because it’s Christ in you the hope of glory.
Really fantastic.
Romans 6:8:
Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also [what?] live with
Right. I wonder if there would be a text some place that would have the word “know”
here, sure would be neat. Because my believing that I’m going to live with him has nothing
to do with my believing. Because if I’m born again of God’s spirit, I’m automatically, what?
Right, live with him. Why sure. Look how beautiful it would be if we said: Now if we be
dead with Christ we know that we shall also, what? Live with him. Because, verse 9
corroborates the participle here.
Romans 6:9, 10:
Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no
more dominion [lordship] over him.
For in that he died, he died unto sin [what?] once:
When Adam blew it, he transgressed the law how many times? Once. Now Christ
Jesus died how many times? {Once.} And we have super abounding grace because of it.
Romans 6:11:
Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead...
In verse 5 we talked about “became united with him in the likeness of his death,”
Romans 6:11:
Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be [what?]...
Dead indeed unto whom? {Sin.} You see, it is this receiving to reign. You’ve got to
reckon yourself dead. You and I (we’re just meaner than the Devil) sin and all the rest; but
you reckon yourself, what? {Dead.}That’s right. It’s a renewed mind trip. You just got to
reckon yourself dead to sin. Sin’s not dead, you just got to reckon it dead. Because of what
God did in Christ. And unless people rise up to these believing privileges and declare it
again, nobody will ever see the greatness of the redemption we have in Christ Jesus.
They’ll just stumble along, they’ll get to heaven but they’re sure going to have a miserable
time enjoying the trip, that’s the best of them. It says:
Romans 6:11, 12:
...dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto [whom?] God through Jesus Christ our
Let not sin therefore reign...
There it is. We reign in life by Christ Jesus because we believed right? Believed,
received, reign. Here, let not sin reign. Now how is sin going to reign? By the same way
that you’re going to reign in life? They’re opposites. By believing. Now all men are going
to sin, come short, that we know; but if you dwell on that stuff and you receive that thing
all the time, you’re going to let sin do, what? {Reign.}Verse 13.
Romans 6:13, 14 (not KJV):
Neither yield ye your members instruments [arms, outreach]to unrighteousness
unto sin: but yield yourselves unto [who?] God, as those that are alive from the
dead, and your arms as weapons of righteousness unto God.
For sin shall not have absolutely have lordship over you: for ye are not under the
law, but under [what?] grace.
The super abounding grace. That’s the first section with the statement, the question,
the repudiation, and the answer. Now I’m going to read you that from this translation [New
English], okay?
Romans 5:20-6:14 (New English):
Law intruded into this process to multiply law breaking. But where sin was thus
multiplied, grace immeasurably exceeded it,
in order that it as sin established its reign by way of death, so God’s grace might
establish its reign in righteousness and issue in eternal life through Jesus Christ
our Lord.
What are we to say, then? Shall we persist in sin, so that there may be all the more
No, no! We died to sin: how can we live in it any longer?
Have you forgotten that when we were baptized into union with Christ Jesus we
were baptized into his death?
By baptism we were buried with him, and lay dead, in order that, as Christ was
raised from the dead in - the splendor of the Father, so also we might set our feet
upon the new path of life.
For if we have become incorporate with him in a death like his, we shall also be
one with him in a resurrection like his.
We know that the man we once were has been crucified with Christ, for the
destruction of the sinful self, so that we may no longer be the slaves of sin,
since a dead man is no longer answerable for his sin.
But if we thus died with Christ, we believe that we shall also come to life with
We know that Christ, once raised from the dead, is never to die again: he is no
longer under the dominion of death.
For in dying as he died, he died to sin, once for all, and in living as he lives, he
lives to God.
In the same way you must regard yourselves as dead to sin and alive to God, in
union with Christ Jesus.
So sin must no longer reign in your mortal body, exacting obedience to the body’s
You must no longer put its several parts at sin’s disposal, as implements for
[wrongdoing]. No: put yourselves at the disposal of God, as dead men raised to
life; yield your bodies to him as implements for doing right;
for sin shall no longer be your master, because you are no longer under law, but
under the grace of God.
Isn’t that fantastic? It’s just beautiful, just beautiful. Well, that’s all I’m going to do
I’m tired, I quit. Yes, honey?
[Student:] So, often they’ll say you know it’s grace. They’ll just continually blow it in
areas, for their excuse to say it’s grace. But it’s true then that grace is their excuse then
they’re never really going to reign. Is that right?
That’s right. But sin is missing the mark, falling aside. And in order to find out what
sin is all about, you got to read the book, study the Word. Because so much of the stuff
people call sin, is not missing the mark. It’s just stumbling but not falling at best. At other
places that they don’t even think about, it’s falling flat straight on your nose. Then you
really miss the mark. Because you not only got a little off to the side, but you stumbled and
hit your nose. I think I’ll give you the outline I have here in front of me, you can read it
yourself and see what you can come up with. The statement is in 6:14. 6:15 has the
question. 6:15 has the repudiation. 6:16-7:6 has the answer. The third group, you know of
“God forbid”, 7:6 has the statement. Verse 7 has the question. Verse 7 has the repudiation.
Verse 7-12 has the answer. The fourth, the statement is in 7:12. The question is in 7:13. The
repudiation is in 7:13, and the answer is in 7:13-25. You got the question, the repudiation
and part of the answer in verse 13. Like you did others.
Then I put something else down here that I will give to you tonight, that you can write
down. I put in my notes, need to be worked. Three words: agnoeō, meaning: to know.
Ginōskō and oida, all three of these words need to be checked in these two chapters, every
usage, every place. They’re used eleven times in these two chapters. And he did not mean
ginōskō every place or he would have used it. And these fine shades of meaning between
these three words on “know,” used eleven times in these two chapters. Certainly going to
require somebody paying attention to it and figuring it out. Because he just isn’t flipping
lids. And that’s where I need some Aramaic help to check that out. See if these words,
Randy, that appear here in your critical Greek text, whether you have a variation like this in
Aramaic, or whether it would all be ginōskō, or how many it would be see? That’s where
we need work in that stuff. Okay, anything else you want to rap about tonight? Okay, Brian?
[Brian:] Before we go on to something else, I wanted the repudiation in the second outline
you gave us in 6.
[Brian:] And the “wherefore” in verse 12 is because of reconciliation.
Right, all right, Patty?
[Patty:] One day, Naomi and Nancy Burton met with the second year Corps women and
she was telling us that people in the world have an identity crises but we don’t and I’m
not really sure what the greatness of it. I don’t know if she really knew what she was
What’s it mean people in the world have an identity crises? Oh okay. How could they?
Yes, we’ll go to you.
[Student:] When you say identity, you said once it’s our union.
Yeah, identified with, united with.
[Student:] And so we are together its like Christ in us and he’s closer to us than our breath,
is that what you mean?
No, by identified with him in his death; what he did in his resurrection is in his
ascension, see? Now, I specifically stuck into Romans because if I can teach you Romans
you can put the rest together. But there must be flipping words are scriptures up in your
head from Ephesians and Colossians, Philippians, you know. Seated where? {Heavenlies.}
Okay, that’s identification, that’s union, see? The thing about his sin trip, we talk about is it
should not have dominion, lordship, rulership. Okay.
[Student:] [Chapter 6] In verse 4, it says “walk in newness of life.” Is that talking about
the reign that we have in identification?
Right and that our walk there is in that newness. Right, newness squared, quadrupled,
tripled. You see kids, this thing is too big to understand so we just believe it, that’s right.
How can you explain it? You just have to accept it literally. But look, they’ll accept John
3:16 literally right? All right, we have a literal right to accept this. And it’s in the literalness
of it that you begin to see the greatness of Christianity. You see to me all of this other junk
is just a bunch of bologna. Christianity is a pouring steak trip, the rest is thin sliced heretic
bologna, that’s right. All of these religious things, the Buddhism, the Shinto, Mohammed,
all of these major religions, nothing to them, when you see Christianity. What it really is.
Paul must have seen this stuff, that’s why the first century church, really was on fire. But
they got talked out of it. The people talked them out of it. Legalism came back in; the law
came back in. Christ is the end of, what? But if you can put somebody under it again, that’s
exactly what they’ve done through the centuries. It’s really something.
[Craig:] I really see how for this to really sink in, it takes reading it and reading it and
reading it and just seeing the logic of it and getting it so engrained in us so that we can
think in terms of the logic of this. How did the first century get that in so much, they
didn’t have copies and copies of this for everyone to read, did they? The sent one letter
to a place....
The first century church was not nearly as poisoned in the mind as we are. We have
had so called “Christianity.” But it hasn’t been that at all. If it hadn’t been by grace nobody
would have got saved. And therefore, all they had was, you know, the paganism, that’s all
they had. But they didn’t have the head trip we’ve got today. The reason I had such a
problem with Romans I had to much religion in my head, “Christianity” but it wasn’t truth.
Christianity is true, not religion. And they had a difficulty to believe, but I don’t think it
was nearly as paramount as the obstructions we have of believing today. Because we’re
just surrounded with everything that’s called Christian. Like in the Advance Class, we have
Christian spiritualism, the séance trip and all of the rest. It’s really something.